Table Saw Donation from KMS

  • Classroom

    From the Sawstop website’s FAQ:

    What do I do if I activate the safety system’s brake cartridge? What will it cost to reset the safety system? Does activation damage the saw?
    If you activate the safety system’s brake, you will need to replace the brake cartridge and evaluate the condition of the blade for future use. Replacing the brake cartridge is simple and can take as little as 90 seconds to complete. A standard brake cartridge costs $69 USD and a dado brake cartridge $89 USD. SawStop saws are designed to absorb the force of activation and are not damaged by it.

    Will cutting green or “wet” wood activate the SawStop safety system?
    SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then the wood may be sufficiently conductive to activate the brake. If you are unsure whether the material you need to cut is conductive, you can make test cuts using Bypass Mode to determine if it will activate the safety system’s brake. The red light on the control box will flash to indicate conductivity.

    Can I cut conductive materials?
    Yes. You can operate the saw in Bypass Mode which deactivates the safety system’s braking feature, allowing you to cut aluminum, very wet/green wood (see above) and other known conductive materials.

    Is there a way to check if a material is conductive before I cut?
    ​If you are unsure whether the material you need to cut is conductive, you can make test cuts using Bypass Mode to determine if it will activate the safety system’s brake. The red light on the control box will flash to indicate conductivity.

    What happens if the blade comes in contact with a nail or staple in the wood?
    Generally, the safety system will not activate when a nail or staple is cut. Although conductive, these objects are not large enough to cause the safety system to activate unless they are grounded to the table or operator when they contact the blade.

    Can the blade be reused if the safety system brake is activated?
    When the safety system activates, it will sometimes damage one or more teeth on the blade. Some users discard and replace the blade, while others choose to have their blades inspected/repaired by a qualified specialist.

  • Test cuts are going to be very important moving forward.

  • Classroom

    @Grant-Fraser, agreed. Given this info and the cost of an error I am wondering if a table saw 101 might be an idea for a requirement to operate.

  • Table-saw 101 is not a bad idea regardless… Kickback, featherboard, crosscut-sled, ripping, push-sticks, zero-clearance inserts, various other jigs and fixtures. There’s a good book on table saws on the bookshelf in the lounge, the index from that will no doubt provide a checklist of the ideas to cover.

  • Design Lab

    I dealt with the tripped SawStop this morning and afternoon, and wanted to make a long post about the donation, it’s install and the story from there.

    So, we agree to pay KMS $600 over 4 months for this $2600+tax state of the art 10" table saw.

    We have agreed to display KMS (where have we seen those initials before, hhhhmmm?) Tools banner, display their catalouges and flyers, display their logo on the website, endeavor/encourage to buy tools there, etc.

    One thing KMS Tools specified: should the Makerspace not need the saw or, worst case, close its doors, the saw will be returned to them. So thats something to keep in mind.

    I picked up the saw Weds, March 8th at KMS. The guys helped fork it into my truck and threw in a $500 dust/extraction air/conditioner unit, too!

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    I showed up at H4CK Night with it and @MIPS, @sireatalote, @kile, @Timo, @Jim Funk, @arasbm, @jarid hauled it upstairs after removing the motor, wings, rails. Very very heavy.

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    Got it upstairs and @Timo says “Want to whip up a cabinet makers table around it?” and some good guys jumped in there and started on it.

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    Building a new 5’x7’ table in the middle of the Woodshop meant clearing out the old, non-working tools that had been earmarked for removal. Tons (literally) of work for a few people, but well worth it.

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    We got most of it done by 1am - super props to Timo, Kile, Jarid, and John (Bear? Not sure of his handle) did a ton of work there. I fed them dinner at midnight!

    The next day,Thursday, Insight Services used the shop for hours, using the new saw and just loving it.

    Friday morning, however, @Ron_Ron called me to say that @Anton was using the saw and its StopSaw capability was activated. I was busy with other things, so left it til evening to address the situation.

    I called Anton and spoke with him about what happened - apparently he was cutting kitchen counter material (chipboard and arborite, both approved materials for the saw) and about 24" into a cut, the saw activated its StopSaw cartridge. He says his hands were no-where near the saw blade, the material was brand new (ie, no metal or conductive material), the material was not wet (which could activate the feature). I asked if he might have time to come down and help get the saw back up and load his garbage into my truck for the dump and we made a plan for noon today.

    We then spent hours trying to figure out what happened, how it could be fixed, what that would take and when. I made a plan to head to KMS Saturday morning to get a new brake cartridge and 10" carbide blade. Looking at about $200.

    I headed up there and spoke with our main contact at KMS Tools on this saw: Phil. He had the new brake cartridge and blade ready to go, but slashed the price to $95 for the cartridge and only $15 for a $60 10" carbide blade. Nice. Grant reimbursed me.

    I asked Phil if the saw was used or damaged. He said no: it was a floor model that had been used for demos (ie, it HAD been activated before, and had its cartridge replaced). He also said that there was a DEMO brake cartridge often in floor models (cheaper if you are activating it as demo, but designed to only work for a while then they blow out).

    Aha! I thought - I bet when I get the old cartridge out, it will have a big DEMO sticker on it, and that is why it decided to trip.

    I scurried back to the space with the gack and inf, to meet @Anton and make things right. He never showed up though.

    Long/short: I changed out the blade and cartridge and no, it does not say DEMO on the cartridge, but IS a slightly different colour than the new. I hung it on the shop wall, if you want to take a look at what happens when a 6000rpm blade bites into a soft block of aluminum and stops it in about 3/1000 of a second. Impressive damage. Please do not remove the blade or cartridge from the wall - we want to mount it.

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    OK, so the saw is running again BUT, we need to 101 anyone using this saw - would like to have a Maker Monday quicky on it to spread the word and make a proper 101 for the use of this machine.

    Timo and I are going to get at the tables, shelves and cabinets for the Pottery Studio and will run the saw in by-pass mode (no SawStop capability) to ensure we get finished.

    I intend to follow up with the SawStop people to try to determine what happened, including sending the blown cartridge to them for analysis (it has a black box in it that can provide key information about what tripped it - if it finds it hit flesh or that the saw malfunctioned, they send you a free cartridge).

    Thanks to Dave, Ron, Grant, Kile for helping get it back up.

    Over and Out.

  • Looks like the guide rails for the fence need to move two feet to the right.?

  • Classroom

    @bct, the saw is set up properly according to the measurement scales printed on the guide rails. The fence is configurable to move to either side of the blade and use the scales printed in place. The saw came with the short rails, not the longer version. With the short rails it is possible to set the fence for a cut of just over 2’, so we can rip a 4x8 sheet in half lengthwise, but not widthwise. Looks like crosscuts will have to be done with some clamps, a straightedge and a skilsaw for now. In time I’m sure we will get jiggy with it to do all kinds of stuff

  • Design Lab

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  • Design Lab

    the 3 likes are SO gratifying!!!

  • Founder

    @Vaughn @kile and Timo and all others that did the massive amount of work up the woodshop, It looks awesome! Thank you thank you thank you! I look forward to getting in there this week.

    I just have one concern.

    I just became aware of the details of this air conditioner last night. I had originally heard dust extractor. Which I was excited to hear that they had “thrown” in. Because we need one.

    I think that having a good, safe, working saw up there is a good investment, absolutely. However, it seems to me like we were given a free saw, and somehow at the last minute we also bought an air conditioner ($500 + tax is about what we owe them). Which Is not what I expected.

    If we want to collect dust, we want to be doing it at the tools first. Once that’s set up, adding a unit like that is a nice luxury add on. It makes no sense to have our primary dust collector hanging from the ceiling, to be making piles of sawdust at each tool, sweeping up the dust, and having that unit collect a tiny amount of dust by exchanging air. To boot, its a shitty chinese knock-off brand. I’ve bought some magnum hand tools, and they have literally, every single one, broken.

    @Vaughn can we talk to KMS?

    I understand that perhaps it was necessary to get a deal to make some amount of a purchase, but can we direct that precious money towards something that is actually urgently needed? A new mitre saw? A good size dust collector and cyclone with some abs to run around the room to collect the dust from the tools before it becomes airborn? A good router? A full kit of hand tools, multiples of each so we can teach classes? The classroom that is underfunded? Kiln room? Or that money buys a ton of plywood and bins for the storage mission so that you wouldn’t have to personally outlay.

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